remembering the 500,000 americans lost to coronavirus. the president pleading with the country not to be numb to the suffering. >> we often hear people described as ordinary americans. there's no such thing. there's nothing ordinary about them. the people we lost were extraordinary. they spanned generations. born in america. immigrated to america. but just like that, so many of them took their final breath alone in america. i know all too well. i know what it's like to not be there when it happens. i know what it's like when you are there, holding their hands, and look in their eye and they slip away. >> compare that to exactly one year ago on this date president trump proclaimed the virus was

very much under control in this country. how wrong he was. joining us now is dr. anthony fauci, president biden's chief medical adviser. dr. fauci, always great to see you. >> same here. thank you, alisyn. >> dr. fauci, i know that you have been personally analyzing, i guess, how we got here, half a million people dead in the space of one year. and as you look back over this year, have you concluded that it was our political positions and political division that led to this death toll? >> i certainly think that's part of it. it was very complicated situation, one we're dealing with a very formidable virus to begin with. so, anything that is not at its top peak in addressing it in the most appropriate way is going to lead to the kinds of things that we experienced.

so i have said, i believe it's the case when you have a common enemy you've got to pull together in the same way. it's like people on a crew team rowing in the same direction. you can't have disparate responses. and unfortunately there's a lot good about the differences in states and the ability and historically to do things on their own and the way that they see that they want to do it. but when you have such a common force, such a powerful force against you, this virus that's exerted such a toll on us, you've got to do it together in a unifying way and not have any kind of political ideology divisiveness getting in the way of what we're trying to do. that's not the only thing that really was a problem. but that's certainly in my mind having lived through it was something that i found really to be unfortunately damaging. >> when you go back, when we

replay now exactly a year ago president trump saying we have it very much under control, we've had no deaths, the next day he said it's very well under control in our country. a few days later he said everything is under control. i mean, we're very, very cool. we've done it very well. everything is really under control. do you think that his denial and lack of facts contributed to this level of loss? >> well, i think -- i mean, i'm uncomfortable going back and directly criticizing but it's really almost self evident, alisyn, that when you're trying to signal the country to really buckle down and address the kinds of mitigation strategies that we put forth the wearing of masks, the physical distancing, the avoiding congregate settings, the kinds of things that i and many of the other public health people who were there trying to get the country

to appreciate the things that we were trying to do all throughout the entire outbreak. i mean, the thing that i remember very clearly is when we were trying to open up the country, open up the economy and to do it carefully with the gateway, the phase 1, phase 2, the phase 3, i was hoping that we would see a uniform, unified approach towards all doing that together. and when signals come saying this isn't so bad, we're in pretty good shape, when we're saying we're not, we being the health people, that was not helpful because the people who wanted to deny that this is something that was serious when you get a signal from above that it might not be, then you don't do the kinds of things you need to do. i mean, i still have flashing in my mind those scenes of when we were trying to tell people to really be careful and avoid congregate settings and see on

television at night people crowded at bars, inside, no masks. that was just asking for trouble. and, in fact, that's what we got. a lot of trouble. >> and would you say that that was your lowest point during this past year? >> there were several low points from the standpoint -- i mean, i don't have emotional reactions to these things. i've been through this so many times in different situations, but it does intellectually pain me when i see things like pleading for people to do the kinds of things that you know work, the mask wearing, the physical separation and the denial. i mean, one of the things that i think -- if i go through the multiple things that were actually painful for me was when you were seeing situations where there were hospitals that were almost overrun. where you were having 20 icu beds in a particular hospital

and 50 people who needed icu care. and in those same regions there were people who were denying that this was going on, saying, oh, it's fake news. it's a hoax. i mean, how could you possibly say that when people in your own state, your own city, your own county are dying? to me, that just boggled me and it still does. it still does how reality can just be put aside in denying the seriousness of the situation we're in. and here we are today looking at 500,000 americans who have died thus far. i mean, that's the proof of what actually has been going on. you can't deny that. and i guess you asked me what the thing that was the low point for me is when people deny the reality of what's actually happening. >> yeah. let's talk about where we are today and try to get a handle on

how optimistic we should be versus how cautious still. so this weekend on sunday you told our dana bash that you could not recommend that fully vaccinated people get together with their grandchildren. and i know you've also said that you don't think that fully vaccinated people should be dining indoors or going to the theater. why not? if the vaccines are 95% effective, why not let people get back to some semblance of their old life? >> you know, alisyn, we had a lot of discussions about that. i mean, when you look at what i would do personally, i would feel more comfortable in something like that, but we want to make sure that when we make recommendations, when the cdc, who is the agency primarily responsible for collecting data and making public health recommendations, they want to make sure they sit down, talk about it, look at the data and then come out with a recommendation based on the

science. it's so clear -- you're absolutely right. and i've had discussions with this that were not very comfortable discussions. when you say, wait a minute, if i'm fully vaccinated and my daughter comes in the house and she's fully vaccinated, do we really have to have as stringent the public health measures than you would if it was a stranger who was not vaccinated and you were not vaccinated? common sense tells you that, in fact, you don't have to be as stringent in your public health measures. we want firm recommendations from the cdc which i believe will be coming soon. they started off with an important recommendation and i think there will be others coming. that is when you have a fully vaccinated person and they come into contact with someone who is known to be infected with sars-cov-2 you don't have to do the kind of quarantine that we had been recommending. remember ten days without a

test, seven days with a test. that's been put aside. i believe you're going to be hearing more of the recommendations of how you can relax the stringency of some of the things particularly when you're dealing with something like your own personal family when people have been vaccinated. i believe that forthcoming pretty soon. >> and when? i'm just asking people because are so desperate for it. >> you know, i talk about this everyday with the team as recently as last night. so, i hope we will be able to answer the logical questions that people are asking about that. i have to tell you, i agree. there are questions we need to answer pretty soon because more and more people are going to be vaccinated every single day there will be more and more people and they're going to be asking that question. >> and so, until we get those results and that science, do you think that places like new york, which is now going to be open

for restaurants at 35% capacity, places like connecticut which is now open to 50% capacity, are they rushing it? >> you know, i don't want to make judgment on a local situation, but i think if we do things like opening up the way they are, that as long as they do it carefully and observe, and if you see blips as you're doing that, then you need to pull back and strengthen the force of the mitigation measures. i don't think we can sit where i am now and be criticizing each and every town and city what they're doing. the only thing i can say is that if you're starting to open up, which people really do want to do, do it gradually and do it carefully. >> what's happening with the j & j vaccine? why does this seem like it's taking longer than we thought it would and there are fewer doses? >> well, the totality of the

doses, alisyn, i believe will meet the contractual arrangementeds and that is to have 100 million doses i guess by june or so. by the end of june, beginning of july. that will happen. what we're seeing is that instead of being front loaded with the number of doses that are coming out, it very likely will be back loaded. and by that i mean we are now -- they're in full consideration with the fda for an emergency use authorization. i don't want to get ahead of the fda, but if, in fact, that that is given to them, they're not going to have a lot of doses on the first day. it will likely be relatively few, which will then scale up a lot more. and it's just a matter of what happened with their production capability and how they are now going to be revving up. then soon after that they're going to have a lot of doses. but it's not going to be front loaded. >> i only have you for a couple more questions because our time is running out, but what should we expect from the vaccine makers in front of congress

today? >> well, you know, i think that the vaccine makers are going to be people who have put a lot of effort into what they've done. and they're going to try to get as many doses to us as they possibly can. we now, as you know, have contractual relations with two of them for a total of 600 million doses for 300 million people which we likely will get as the president has said by july we'll have enough doses to do that, to vaccinate 300 million people with 600 million doses. so, hopefully we'll hear some positive news about where they're going. one of the things that they're going to get asked, i'm sure, is how are they going to be addressing the evolution of these variants. what are they going to do to try to stay ahead of the variants? and yesterday with a lot of things happening yesterday, one of the things that maybe didn't get enough notice is that the fda came out with updated guidelines to the companies

about how they may modify what they do and to try to assist them in that process if they do have to upgrade their vaccine to meet the variants, particularly the variant in south africa. >> well, that's my last question to you, dr. fauci. because we keep hearing contradictory things. do you believe as you sit here today that the vaccines can outpace the variants? or, do you think that next month, as early as next month, we will see the variants start to take hold and outrun the vaccines? >> well, it depends what variant you're talking about, alisyn. if you're talking about the variant, the 117, the one that has dominated in england, in the uk, it happens that the vaccines that we're using appear to be very good against them, at least by the invitro, namely in the test tube. the one that is not dominant in the united states and that's the

south african isolate the vaccine does not do as well at preventing mild to moderate disease, but from extrapolations you can make both from invitro as well as from what other vaccines have done, it likely can protect against serious illness leading to hospitalizations and death. so what we've got to do, and i said it so many times i'll say it again today, alisyn, we have got to as quickly as efficiently as possible get as many people vaccinated as we can at the same time that we continue with our public health measures. because when people look at that curve, everyday in the newspaper it's very steeply going down, which is terrific news. the infections per day are going down. we can't pull back on that and get complacent because if we do, we could see a surge. so it's within our own hands and our own power about who is going

to win this race between variants and our ability to suppress them. >> dr. fauci, thank you for all of the time this morning. we always appreciate talking to you. really helpful. >> thank you, alisyn. good to be with you. >> john? >> joining us now cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. you were listening to that along with the rest of us and one really interesting thing that alisyn really pushed on is if dr. fauci seems to be saying if not outright but in body language that he as a grandfather might be comfortable having received both doses of vaccines to hang out with his grandchildren, why isn't the cdc or why can't the government come out and clearly say or put on paper that it will be okay to do x on y date, can you explain? >> right. well, and i'll preface by saying i think he is telegraphing even within that great interview that that -- those sorts of recommendations will be coming.

meaning that the recommendations that it would be okay for people who are fully vaccinated to be spending time with other vaccinated people without masks on, without having to do all the things that we've been talking about, just on a more normal sort of setting. i think we're going to be hearing that. there's sort of two things to keep in mind, this is why it's been such a topic of discussion. the trials, the vaccine trials, what they were looking for, do these vaccines reduce the likelihood of you getting sick? that is what they were looking for. they didn't necessarily look for it. do they reduce the likelihood of you becoming infected and trying to transmit the virus? now, what dr. fauci said, common sense will tell you that is probably true as well, that if you received the vaccine, you've got these antibodies, the antibodies are these proteins that help fight the virus, so you would be less likely to become infected and even if you did less likely to have a high enough dose to transmit. but, you know, two schools of thought, do we have to prove that first through these scientific studies some of which are happening now? or do we just say basically

common sense? this is a discussion that's happening within the highest levels of science, within the government right now. >> well, what he is saying is that he'll feel a lot more comfortable -- he's not comfortable giving a recommendation until they prove it via science. he wants the science to lead. okay? but what i was saying is when? when will those studies -- i'm happy to hear those studies are happening to find out about transmissibility but when? at some point it becomes disincentive is too strong, you want the messaging to be go and get the vaccine as soon as you can because your life is going to be so much better. but we can't exactly say that yet. >> right. well, you know, i would say one thing, i think your life is better once you get vaccinated regardless. my parents got vaccinated. i can just tell you that, you live with the worry, alisyn, as my parents constantly told me everyday, you worry. i've been careful but i might get sick and now they have this confidence, not 100% but confident they're not going to get sick. there is value to that. i don't want to minimize that.

but as far as the studies go, when i say they're on going, i think that they may be coming out soon. a study looking at 31,000 vaccinated people out of mayo basically showing day 36 as it turns out in the study that people are 80% less likely at that point to become infected and/or transmit the virus. so, you're starting to see some of that data. now, people will say, is that data good enough? 80%, 36 days. is it going to be a higher percentage of decreasing infection at, you know, three months. again, these are the discussions that are happening. i think we'll gate recommendation but it may be after you've been vaccinated it will be this amount of time before we think not only are you protected from getting sick but also significantly protected from being able to transmit the virus. i think it will get that level of detail hopefully some time soon. >> also one other, i think, organizational thing which is sometimes -- it's not dr. fauci who writes the cdc stuff. i think sometimes he doesn't

want to get out in front of what they're going to publish or dictate to them what he thinks they should publish. very quickly, one of the things he said at the end and interesting and got covered up in the news of 500,000 deaths, the fda making clear that as the variants or if these variants become more prevalent, that the approval process for changing or adjusting the vaccines will be much more streamlined or much quicker, sanjay. how much quicker? what does this mean? >> it's remarkably faster. i've been following that part of the story all along. it's really interesting. so there's two things. one is that first of all just the technology to be able to potentially retool the vaccine. it's almost -- i'm simplifying but it's thinking of changing computer code rather than changing a biological therapeutic. that could be done in weeks i'm told, four to six weeks you could essentially have a new vaccine. then there are what are known as bridging trials. you have to do some of the

safety stuff around the new vaccine, but then you can bridge it to all the other phase 2 and phase 3 data. so quickly, you could have new vaccines quickly. >> very good news. sanjay, thanks so much for being with us, helping us understand what we heard from dr. fauci just there. appreciate it. so, very shortly the first congressional hearing into the armed insurrection at the u.s. capitol. key witnesses that we have not heard from yet we'll hear from them today. that's next. ♪ ♪ these days you need more than an education. so that's what we give you. introducing career services for life. learn more at phoenix.edu

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in just a few hours the senate will hold its first public hearing on the deadly insurrection at the u.s. capitol. key officials who were in charge of security that day will have to answer for what went wrong. cnn's whitney wild is live in washington with a preview. what do we expect, whitney?

>> reporter: we're going to hear from the government affairs committee as well as the senates rules committee this bipartisan hearing is so consequential in trying to figure out how this all happened. we will hear from four key witnesses to that day. metropolitan police chief robert conte, former u.s. capitol police chief steve sund, former house sergeant at arms paul irving and former senate sergeant at arms michael stenger. the last three are so critical because they resigned amid the fallout from the riot. people were harshly criticizing them. we'll hear from them today. we heard next to nothing from paul irving and michael stenger. we heard a little from sund who also pointed the blame at stenger and paul irving. they'll try to acknowledge their failures, additionally, i think the big questions that are going to be raised here are how did this happen? and how can we prevent it? so the information that senators

are trying to learn today is what kind of major changes can be made to ensure a crisis like this never happens again, john. >> whitney wild, thank you so much. it will be fascinating to watch. as you said, some of these people testifying at odds with each other. >> reporter: exactly. >> there could be moments of tension to be sure. thank for that. at his confirmation hearing judge merrick garland called the capitol siege a heinous attack on democracy and pledged to supervise the prosecution of those involved. judge garland also bm emotional when recounting his family's history and his motivation to serve the country. >> i come from a family where my grandparents fled anti-semitism and persecution. country took us in and protected

us. and i feel an obligation to the country to pay back and the highest best set of my own skills to pay back. so i want very much to be the kind of attorney general that you're saying i could become. i'll do my best to try to be that kind of attorney general. >> really incredible moment there. david chalian joining us through. judge garland is expected to sail through and be confirmed fairly easily. now there is or are increasing number of biden nominees who may not sail through quite so easily. neera tanden to lead the office of management and budget, she may not be the nominee by the end of today. congresswoman deb holland to lead the interior department and haifier becerra to lead hhs. what's the hold up or signify the difficulties that might be ahead over the next 24 hours?

>> the smooth sailing period of biden nominees to his cabinet as phase 1 here has come to an end. phase 2 seems to be where there's going to be a bit more controversy surrounding some of the nominees, certainly a much more partisan vote when it comes to the final vote on the senate floor likely. republicans seem to be galvanizing their opposition around two of the folks you just named deb hollande for interior secretary, javier xavier becerr health and human services secretary. the republicans are eager to label hollande supports the green new deal and supports a ban on fracking, has protested against pipelines. they kind of want to paint her outside the mainstream kind of environmentals. i'm not sure that's going to work. she's obviously a history-breaking nominee and for native americans in this country, it's an unbelievable moment to see her nomination to

be the first native american to be nominated to a president's cabinet. and democrats are pretty unified it seems in support. but, it will be more contentious. and xavier becerra, john, republicans are saying he has no experience in the health sector. he has no real experience as it relates to the issues that hhs oversees. they're trying to picket him there. they will try to land some punches. it won't be as smooth sailing as the garland hearing yesterday where i don't think a single republican laid a glove on the attorney general nominee. but it's unclear that those two won't get through. tanden, i mean, neera tanden's nomination really hangs in the balance, as you said. she may not be the nominee come the end of the day. >> it's also pivotal week obviously for biden's covid relief bill and so in terms of the debate over the minimum wage, senator joe manchin is really flexing some muscles

here. and might get his way. here was his rational for why he doesn't want $15 an hour, why he wants 11. 11 works for americans and we can do $11 in two years and be better position than we will be for $15 in five years. your thoughts? >> yeah. joe manchin is trying to prove himself to be the most powerful person in washington. i think is what he's trying to do here. we just mentioned neera tanden, right? it was his opposition as the one democrat that's come out opposed to neera tanden that sent her nomination as omb director into a tail spin because the biden administration got scrambling to find republican votes. when you have a 50/50 divided senate and you're trying to do things on democratic-only votes like the biden administration is trying to pass this covid relief bill, alisyn, then any single democrat becomes sort of king maker in many ways. and so, with this minimum wage

battle, which we don't know yet if it's going to be, according to the rules to include the $15 minimum wage in the covid relief bill. we're waiting to find that out from the senate parliamentarian. but manchin made clear, even if it's allowed in the bill, he's not going to vote for it. when you're doing something you need all 50 democratic votes, joe manchin makes a really big difference. so you hear what is an opening for a potential compromise. you heard joe biden mention that he may be open to compromise on the minimum wage as well. and you can start seeing where keeping all 50 democrats on board including manchin has a potential path forward here. >> i asked dick durbin yesterday if the democrats in the senate had a joe manchin problem. he said no, they have a 50/50 problem but really the 50/50 problem is a joe manchin problem it's one in the same thing. david, very quickly, president biden last night with the speech to the nation, what you saw there is something that joe biden does and can do at a crucial moment for america. >> yeah.

he can almost do it like nobody else that we've seen in public life just because of his own personal experiences. putting that kind of empathy forward, that kind of humanity forward in a moment of grief and sort of be grief counselor to the nation is just something he has in his bones. and i think that moments like what you saw last night commemorating that awful grim milestone of 500,000 americans dead due to this terrible pandemic is why joe biden a month in is still experiencing in most of the polls a bit of a honeymoon. why he's still getting good grades of his handling of the pandemic. in other words, why the american people are still giving him time right now in order to actually deliver on turning this pandemic around. >> david chalian, thank you very much. so florida's governor wants to lower flags to half-staff, not because of coronavirus but to honor rush limbaugh. one state official is refusing to follow the governor's order,

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elected official in florida is defying a directive from governor ron desantis to lower state flags in honor of conservative talk show host rush limbaugh. joining me now is florida's agriculture commissioner nikki free. thank you so much for joining us. why do you refuse to lower the flags at the buildings that you control? >> first of all, good morning, john and thank you for having me on today. you know, the american flag should not be used and cannot be used as a political prop by governor desantis. but what he is doing is bending over backwards to honor a radio host who spent his entire career talking hate speech and talking bigotry and division and conspiracy theories. and lowering our flag should be a symbol of unity not division, raising our standards, not lowering our standards. so we will not be lowering our flags at my department state offices to honor rush limbaugh. and we will not celebrate hate

speech. instead we will celebrate unity and compassion. and that's also why you're seeing mayors and local leaders across the state of florida following my lead on this. >> what do you think the governor's power is to call for state flags to be lowered? >> you know, we have a state protocol that dictates when to lower the flag and that's to honor a fallen hero, servicemen, people who served our country and served our state. and it's very clear what the flag protocol is. and the governor is using this as a political prop and not something that should be taken for granted. people have across our history and our country brave men and women have fought and died to protect the flag. this is something as a symbol that reflects our patriotism and liberty and all the beautiful things that makes america great. we should be recognizing those individuals who sacrificed and not those who have created division and spoken bigotry and

racist comments for their entire career. >> my reading of the provisions of the state flag lowering is there are a number of criteria but people can petition the governor and the governor can decide to do so if he or she wants. that may be a side issue. what message do you think it sends to floridians? >> it sends a message that this is a type of person that we are honoring in our state. and we should be honoring those who have fallen in the line of duty. you know the president is lowering the flags to recognize the 500,000 individuals in our country who have died because of coronavirus and memorializing them and recognizing the sacrifices of their families. that's what we should be honoring. and when governor desantis uses the flag, the american flag, as a prop, it sends a message to the rest of the citizens of our state that that is what he idolizes. he calls him his friend. and quite honestly, if those are the types of friends that governor desantis deals with --

>> nikki fried appears to be frozen. let me see if she comes back. i'll talk for one second here. the commissioner nikki fried, people should know, the highest ranked democratic statewide elected official right now in the state of florida. commissioner, you're back with us. >> yes. >> what are your plans in terms of running for governor against ron desantis in 2022? >> you know, john, every single day it is becoming more and more clear that we have to get rid of governor desantis. and as the only statewide elected democrat in the state of florida, there are a lot of people who are coming up to me and telling me that i'm one of our best shots. so we're certainly looking into it, but again it's becoming clearer every single day that we need to make sure that governor desantis is a one-term governor and that we end this hatred in our state in 2022. >> that sounds close to a yes. >> we're not there yet.

>> what happens, by the way, on the flags? can they force you? can they send in state police? likelihood there could be conflict to force the issue here? >> no. part of protocol in our state is also that there is no penalties for not abiding by the order from the governor. so, that's why i've given the director to my offices to not lower it. but there are no penalties involved. and that is something that we don't want to penalize somebody for their beliefs by any stretch of the imagination. >> commissioner nikki freed, appreciate being with us. >> thank you for having me this morning. judge merrick garland pledged to supervise the progr prosecution of hundreds of people charged in the capitol insurrection. see how his history of convicting domestic terrorists could help him as attorney general. a reality check next.

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♪ five years after she was blocked from a u.s. supreme court seat, merrick garland is back. and this time as attorney general nominee and it turns out the timing is perfect. john avlon explains in our "reality check." >> so you probably know attorney general nominee merrick garland as obama's ill-fated pick to the supreme court. but you might not know why garland was considered so qualified and why it's so relevant today. >> i supervise the prosecution of the perpetrators of the bombing of the oklahoma city federal building. who sought to spark a revolution that would topple the federal government. if confirmed, i will supervise the prosecution of white supremacists and others who stormed the capitol on january 6th. a heinous attack that sought to disrupt a corner stone of our

democracy. >> so the connection between the two is key. at the top official at the doj back in the clinton administration, garland led the investigation into timothy mcvay, who set off a bomb at the federal building on april 19th, 1995 that killed 168 people including many children. mcvay was a disaffected army veteran who attended meeting with the self styled michigan militia and arrested wearing a t-shirt with a quote from thomas jefferson popular with so called patriot groups many the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. this was an outer expression of the anti-government cool aid he had been drinking but there was a deeper strain of hate at work. >> there is a line from oklahoma city all the way back to the battles of the original justice department against the ku klux klan. >> that's right. founded after the civil war the doj's first mission was to combat the kkk, so the virus of white vigilante violence, trying

to overturn elections and disenfranchise black voters dates back to reconstruction. they're inheritors found new recruits in the reaction to the civil rights movements with the 1960s movement. groups that basically denied federal authority this side of the civil war. now for some of these folks the 14th amendment not slavery was america's original sin. others pointed to the 16th amendment which allowed the federal income tax and most of them thought that freedom meant the second amendment almost exclusively. and the 1990s these anti-government militia groups rose in reaction to confrontations at ruby ridge in waco, but the carnage of the oklahoma city attack was so horrific that it caused a backlash and a number of self-styled patriot groups declined for a time. but they reconstituted in reaction to president obama and many saw an ally in president trump. now compare what mcvay once said, quote, civil war imminent so we have to shed blood to reform the current system to the kind of talk we herd heard from the oath keepers members charged

in the capitol attack. quote, we're on the verge of a hot civil war. like in 1859. and consider an abc news report that mcveigh showing since 017. it's all too clear why merrick garland's experience prosecuting tim mveigh is relevant to the troubles we're dealing with today. still, it's sobering to hear him say this -- >> we are facing a more dangerous period than we faced in oklahoma city. >> and that's your "reality check." >> john, that was excellent. thank you very much for all of that background on the u.s. supreme court issuing two trump-related decisions but it's clarence thomas' dissent that's getting a lot of attention. we discuss that next.

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plus, with every product you purchase we donate to help a woman thrive. join our movement today at thrivecosmetics.com. monday was not a good day for donald trump at the u.s. supreme court. they dealt big blows to his efforts to shield his tax returns and his false claims of election fraud. but in a remarkable dissent yesterday, justice clarence thomas revealed what sounded like support for donald trump and his refusal to accept the results of the 2020 election. joining us now, cnn's supreme court analyst joan descupik and elie honig. let me read what clarence thomas

wrote. he says because fraud is more prevalent with mail-in ballots, increased use of those ballots raises the likelihood courts will be asked to adjudicate questions that go to the heart of election confidence. and he had two more pieces about election competence. is that on its face something unusual for a justice to say? >> it was in this case, just because of where we've been since november 3rd. all the different court cases that have gone on, all the different rhetoric from former president donald trump and many republicans who refuse to accept the results of the november 3rd election. it plays right into that. i think that there are -- there have been in the past, maybe some incidents that people may be concerned about but there's nothing resembling systemic fraud in elections. as you remember, former attorney general bill barr even said

there was nothing widespread about fraud here. and for justice thomas to bring it up in this opinion yesterday was quite stunning. 11 pages. he mentioned fraud ten times. he had a very ominous tone talking about the integrity of elections and that people should not have confidence in the system just because systemic fraud has not been discovered. now one other thing you should know. he wrote alone. none of the other conservative justices joined him, and justices samuel alito and neil gorsuch also dissented from the order that said they weren't going to take up the pennsylvania case but they did not join a word of what clarence thomas said. >> a little more from clarence thomas about his own confusion, i suppose. i suppose voters' confusion. he says an election system lacks clear rules when different additionals dispute who has authority to set or change those

rules. this kind of dispute brews confusion because voters may not know which rules to follow. even worse, competing candidates might each declare victory under different sets of rules. all of this is a little opaque. however, it's hard to divorce this from the views of his wife who has been so public with her support for maga world. and on january 6th was cheering them on, cheering on the protesters before the violent insurrection and telling them to stand up as they march to the capitol. and so what do you hear in his wording here? >> yeah, it's hard to separate the reality of the relationship there. but it is jarring to hear the united states supreme court endorse and amplify some flavor of this conspiracy theory. yes, it's only one justice but still justice thomas, what he writes carries the perimeter of

the entire supreme court. if you want to understand how unusual it is, justice alito issued a separate dissent in this case. that was also conservative in its leanings but just focuses on the specific legal and procedural issue. justice thomas goes on this detour, this riff about election fraud and says something about the fact that there's no evidence of election fraud doesn't prove this was a clean election. that is textbook conspiracy theory logic and now it's got the stamp of the supreme court on it. >> let's talk about donald trump's taxes. this was another blow to donald trump and the supreme court paved the way for the manhattan d.a. to be able to get them. is this a sprurprise, joan? >> no what was a surprise is how long it took them to get here. it's been sitting with the justices since october. they were clearly torn behind the scenes. i expect that john roberts let

the dueling sides have their say, work it out, try to figure out where they would -- what they would say. but in the end, face it, they had already ruled in july that donald trump had few grounds on which to challenge the grand jury's subpoena for his tax records. and there was really not much more to say. it just took them four months to figure out how they were going to say it in a one sentence order with no recorded dissent. i don't think everybody was just very cheery and unanimous behind the scenes before we got here. so that was the surprise. but just think of how long donald trump has been resisting turning over his tax returns since the campaign. >> oh, years. and asked about it routinely. so elie, donald trump says this is a fishing expedition or opens the door for a fishing expedition. the fact the supreme court ruled this way, does that tell us

there's some evidence of there, there. >> in order to issue a subpoena, a prosecutor has to have some basis for it. if you look at the totality of this investigation that we're seeing from the manhattan district attorney, you can see the warning signs sort of stacking up for donald trump. we know the manhattan d.a. has been talking to michael cohen. he's publicly confirmed that recently. we know the manhattan d.a. has gone out and hired specifically a former federal prosecutor from my old office, the southern district of new york, who specialized in organized crime to come in and lead this case. now we have this subpoena coming through which is going to lead to cy vance getting the tax returns. the walls are closing in on donald trump. he spent the last four years hiding from the law, using the protections of being the sitting president to fend off indictments, potential indictments, defend off civil cases, fend off subpoenas. now he's a private citizen like you or me. he's going to find he's in a whole different situation. >> joan, elie, thank you both very much.

"new day" continues right now. this is "new day" with alisyn camerota and john berman. >> good morning. this is "new day." this morning, flags are flying at half-staff at the white house and the capitol to mark a half a million american lives lost to coronavirus. it's a monumental loss made all the worse by knowing that in the u.s., it didn't have to happen this way. it didn't have to be this high. dr. anthony fauci just toldous "new day" this morning that political divisions contributed to that horrible death toll. dr. fauci also says that the cdc could soon relax the rules for people who are fully vaccinated. you'll hear more of that conversation with him in just a moment. >> president biden marked the milestone overnight and implored the nation not to be numb to the suffering. ♪